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DizzyDroid
Newbie
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Forgive me if this has been covered already.
I was reading about the Bradley Fighting Vehicle and was interested about the reactive armor it can employ. Basically, and this is a simplified explanation, it has large plates filled with an explosive covering the vehicle. When a projectile hits the plate, it is detonated outside the vehicle lessening the damage. Would this be a possible system to be employed by future military versions? I was not sure if the center of gravity would be an issue. The BFV is pretty low to the ground and would not be apt to tip as easily as a result of an explosion. Is this a viable possibility?
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Ph33r t3h b33r
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Total Posts: 23 | Joined Feb. 2004 | Posted on: 8:45 pm on Feb. 24, 2004 | IP
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ChrisDickerson
Mecha Technician
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I'm impressed. A newbie that does not just start gabbling about garbage. You are one of the few.. Welcome.
This topic was actually breached in a couple of different locations, and yes, it is a current thought we are holding.. You will find the topic about stick-on armor for Humvees in the Addition Non-MPS Information area. There are others, but none come readily to mind.
The fact that you picked up on the weight and balance issue flat out amazes me. The question would depend on how much armor and where it was actually used. Any major weight loss in a single area would have to be compensated for, either internally or by dropping off something that is external in the opposite portion of the mech's structure.
In short, yes, it is an option we are looking into exploring, once we have need of it.
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Chris Dickerson, Resource Requisitions, M.P.S. Team
No one has the time to do a job right the first time, but they always have time to do it again.
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Total Posts: 1507 | Joined May 2003 | Posted on: 10:07 pm on Feb. 24, 2004 | IP
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Caesar02
N00b Zerkleinerungsmaschine
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Like Chris said, that was an exceptional post for a newbie.
Anywho, I think that weight might be an issue, but I suppose that argument would be countered by the greatly increased surviveability for the mech.
I guess the only real argument I have against it is that reactive armor is the kind of thing that you put on frontline fighting vehicles, and I just dont see mechs doing that sort of thing.
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Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes. That way, when you do criticize them, you're a mile away, and you have their shoes.
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Total Posts: 1191 | Joined June 2002 | Posted on: 11:07 pm on Feb. 24, 2004 | IP
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kaempfer
Advanced Member
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Yeah, if there's a military version, it will probably just be some fairly light composite or ceramic armour.
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[wannabe] Aerospace engineer
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Total Posts: 987 | Joined Aug. 2002 | Posted on: 8:07 am on Feb. 25, 2004 | IP
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DizzyDroid
Newbie
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Wow, thank you, that was unexpected. I can say something stupid if you want. From what I read, the plates for the BFV are pretty large and have about and eighth of an inch of explosive inside the metal shielding.
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Ph33r t3h b33r
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Total Posts: 23 | Joined Feb. 2004 | Posted on: 8:26 am on Feb. 25, 2004 | IP
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geneofols
Advanced Member
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Quote: from DizzyDroid on 8:26 am on Feb. 25, 2004
Wow, thank you, that was unexpected. I can say something stupid if you want.
No, that's quite alright. In fact, we've had our fill of stupid n00bs recently. They could all learn a thing or two--well, several things, actually--from you.
Nice signature. Megatokyo fan? Or just general l33t?
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Posted by Gene."Duct tape is kinda like the Force: it has a light side and a dark side, and it holds the universe together."
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Total Posts: 459 | Joined Oct. 2001 | Posted on: 8:33 am on Feb. 25, 2004 | IP
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DizzyDroid
Newbie
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I am a big MT fan. Here is the sad part, through college and even before in high school I was(what I thought) a HUGE gamer. However, I never heard of l337 until I read MT. Makes me wonder how HUGE of a gamer I really was. Kind of sad really.
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Ph33r t3h b33r
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Total Posts: 23 | Joined Feb. 2004 | Posted on: 8:47 am on Feb. 25, 2004 | IP
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Earle Bishop 
Mecha_Engineer
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I feel old now. I remember when it was still 'elite.'
*snif*
Ky, do you, by chance, have a link to the BFV info you referenced?
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Earle Bishop
Project Coordinator
Mechanized Propulsion Systems
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Total Posts: 1769 | Joined May 2001 | Posted on: 9:21 am on Feb. 25, 2004 | IP
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DizzyDroid
Newbie
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The information I had was from an uncle who used to drive them and I think I saw a piece on the Bradley on the Discovery channel. I could look it up and see what I come up with. I'll get back to you on that.
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Ph33r t3h b33r
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Total Posts: 23 | Joined Feb. 2004 | Posted on: 1:26 pm on Feb. 25, 2004 | IP
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noahrei
Advanced Member
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With all the people talkking about howvulnerable a mech is if you take its legs, maybe that system could be used there. Although balance is still going to be an issue, you will be knocked down but you will still be able to get back up and operate.
Also a possible countermeasure for the torso area. Some tall buildings use a heavy weight sled at the to to stabilise them in winds and earthquakes. Maybe it would be possible to design a mech with an active, intelligent center of gravity. Take a hit + counter the weight = stay on your feet (+/- a knee).
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In better times, justice had three flavors: Foil, Epee and Sabre.
Mad Rabbit Design
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Total Posts: 500 | Joined Aug. 2002 | Posted on: 3:15 pm on Feb. 25, 2004 | IP
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DizzyDroid
Newbie
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I found a website that outlines the reactive armor pretty well. There is even a portion on the next generation in this system that will observe an incoming round and actually launch its own projectile to detonate the round before it gets to the vehicle. There are several pages to the article, just FYI. Hope this helps.
http://www.defense-update.com/features/du-1-04/reactive-armor.htm
(Edited by DizzyDroid at 12:47 pm on Feb. 25, 2004)
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Ph33r t3h b33r
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Total Posts: 23 | Joined Feb. 2004 | Posted on: 3:44 pm on Feb. 25, 2004 | IP
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ChrisDickerson
Mecha Technician
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Aye, it does.. Thank you..
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Chris Dickerson, Resource Requisitions, M.P.S. Team
No one has the time to do a job right the first time, but they always have time to do it again.
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Total Posts: 1507 | Joined May 2003 | Posted on: 7:00 pm on Feb. 25, 2004 | IP
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Caesar02
N00b Zerkleinerungsmaschine
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Nice linkage.
I still prefer active defense systems over passive ones, even if reactive armor does reside in the grey area between the two. I think the ideal system for a mech would be an anti-projectile gasdynamic laser system, a la http://www.defensereview.com/352003/TIS1.pdf .
That was posted on another thread a long time ago, but I dont know if many people read it. Anyway, its basically a really powerful, really lightweight laser that could easily be used to vaporize incoming projectiles. An active defense would be particularly useful for a mech due to its greater height as compared to other land vehicles- it could detect and counter threats much more quickly and effectivly from an anti-missile system mounted on the top of the mech.
An active defense would have a whole lot of advantages. For one, it would be much lighter than reactive armor or solid armor plates. Second of all, it could potentially defeat most large projectiles like missiles and tank rounds. That would mean that no damage is taken at all when one of these rounds is fired at the mech, instead of the common defense of sacrificing a chunk of armor and praying the same spot isn't hit again.
Of course, some plate armor protection would still be required, but the weight would still be reduced to the point where speed and maneuverability would be dramatically increased.
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Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes. That way, when you do criticize them, you're a mile away, and you have their shoes.
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Total Posts: 1191 | Joined June 2002 | Posted on: 9:11 pm on Feb. 25, 2004 | IP
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kaempfer
Advanced Member
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I don't think putting explosive armour on a mech leg is the best idea...
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[wannabe] Aerospace engineer
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Total Posts: 987 | Joined Aug. 2002 | Posted on: 9:44 pm on Feb. 25, 2004 | IP
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tomexe
Hardcore
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Quote: from kaempfer on 6:44 pm on Feb. 25, 2004
I don't think putting explosive armour on a mech leg is the best idea...
Would all depend on the basic hull armor of the mech in question. There are vehicles that cannot carry reactive armor because their base armor isn't strong enough. The Marines LAVs are one of them. And of course the Armored Hummvee.
The Bradleys in Iraq right now though are usually not wearing their tiles. They work so often with dismounted infantry that they cant risk detonating tiles and injuring their dismounts.
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Total Posts: 1212 | Joined May 2001 | Posted on: 10:31 pm on Feb. 25, 2004 | IP
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KITT the Cylon
Advanced Member
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<<design a mech with an active, intelligent center of gravity.>> -- noahrei Posted on 3:15 pm on Feb. 25, 2004
I like the sound of that. Integrate some "evasive" maneuvers into the balancing software. Would you want to fight back against the momentum of the hit? Or would you want to reposition?
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Fourth law of thermodynamics: a Mech will incinerate its competition.
I need to keep reminding myself: mech is not a superweapon.
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Total Posts: 260 | Joined Nov. 2003 | Posted on: 12:21 am on Feb. 26, 2004 | IP
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noahrei
Advanced Member
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I would say that if you were using reactive armour, you would want to move into the blast to stop from being knocked over.
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In better times, justice had three flavors: Foil, Epee and Sabre.
Mad Rabbit Design
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Total Posts: 500 | Joined Aug. 2002 | Posted on: 7:22 pm on Feb. 27, 2004 | IP
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ChrisDickerson
Mecha Technician
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I would much rather have reactive armor exploding outward than an RPG exploding inward... Especially in my mech's legs.
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Chris Dickerson, Resource Requisitions, M.P.S. Team
No one has the time to do a job right the first time, but they always have time to do it again.
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Total Posts: 1507 | Joined May 2003 | Posted on: 7:53 pm on Feb. 27, 2004 | IP
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EdZ
Advanced Member
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Would it be more practical to incorporate reactive armor into a kind of 'skirt' over the mech's legs instaed of putting it onto the leg itself? It would:
a) keep the explosion away from the leg (of both armor AND warhead)
b) Be a LOT easier to design (square panals instead of shaped ones for the legs)
c) allows for armor covering joint areas, which wouldn't be posible with reactive armor.
d) allow for easier replacement of armor 'patches' (posibly even by the mech itself. Heh, mecha bandaids)
e) the flexibilty of the skirt would lessen the need for active balancing when the armor activates
The main problems I can see are:
a) attaching it to the mech
b) freedom of motion when the mech crouches/goes prone
c) taking up a lot of space (i.e. it may be the same width as the mech itself or wider to give good leg clearance.)
(Edited by EdZ at 6:08 am on Feb. 28, 2004)
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A hive-mind is a terrible thing to waste.
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Total Posts: 1036 | Joined April 2003 | Posted on: 9:06 am on Feb. 28, 2004 | IP
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Caesar02
N00b Zerkleinerungsmaschine
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A skirt long enough to cover the two most vulnerable parts of a mechs leg- the hips and the knees- would be extremely long and bulky. It would end up making the mech much heavier, and it would definitely get in the way of the legs. If you are bent on having a skirt on the mech, make it plain old spaced armor to detonate warheads. That would be much, much lighter and therefore would reduce many of the problems presented by a reactive armor skirt.
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Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes. That way, when you do criticize them, you're a mile away, and you have their shoes.
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Total Posts: 1191 | Joined June 2002 | Posted on: 10:05 am on Feb. 28, 2004 | IP
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Reactive Armor
