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tomexe
Hardcore
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THEL and now MTHEL (Mobile Tactical High Energy Laser) is the Joint US/Israeli project to build a laser that can destroy incoming missiles, bombs, and shells in flight. It is still the size of a semi truck. A bigger unit is the Airborne Chemical Laser, which requires a 747 to lift and the optics turret alone weighs 11,000 pounds, but it can burn a basketball sized hole in a ballistic missile booster from 200km away.
ZEUS is a solid state laser, different and potentially much more compact technology than the THEL or the chemical laser in the ABL. There is no problem aiming the thing, the use as a demolition weapon is just because it has only 10Mw of power. It can only burn small objects and then it takes a while to achieve burnthrough, about two seconds to burn through a hand grenade casing at 30m. Even with the best FCS and mount it would have trouble staying on a vheicle or missile long enough to destroy it at that power level. There are two in existance, one doing demining in Afghanistan and one cleaning up the bombing range at Nellis AFB. I think they ordered a couple more, to send to Iraq to see if they can knock back this problem with improvised explosives left on the roadside blowing up shredding unamrored US vheicles as convoys pass by. The idea is to put a Zeus at the head of a convoy and just burn up any "trash" that looks like it might be large enough to hold some explosives.
But it is at least small enough to fit in a HUMVEE. The USAF now is working on making it smaller and fitting it into fighter aircraft and the rear gunners position in the remaining B-52H's. They say they need to get to a minimum of 75Mw to be useful at destroying fast moving targets, 100Mw would be ideal, and to remain at the current 5000 pound weight of ZEUS and preferably less. 100Mw would give them the power to kill another fighter or burn up unarmored ground vheicles, as well as shoot down missiles in flight (at least to the limits of the FCS, the THEL shot down 155mm rounds going only 800m/s, Hypervelocity missiles like LOSAT travel at 1800m/s and could strike before the FCS could respond)
The USAF is also testing combining the solid state laser with fiber optic technology. Allowing the generator to be placed near the vheicles engine but the emitters to be anywhere. Specificly they are looking at a laser package for the F-35A JSF that would go in the place of the Fan section of the USMC/RAF F-35C and be driven by the same PTO off the front of the compressor section that would contain a dynamo, coolent pump, and the laser generator. This then would lead to small gimball ball turrets, like TI/laser rangfinder ball on the Sukhois and MiG-29's mounted above and below the nose. Or in the B-52H it would be mounted in the bombay but the turrets would be under the nose and in the old tail gun position.
A ZEUS size laser with fiber optic emitters would fit in with the all electric drive and weapons fit invisioned for the FCS. Its also something that a mech could carry into the back country, its not going to be something a infantryman can carry with him anytime soon on his back, but its something that would be very useful for mine clearing and anti-aircraft/missile defense.
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Total Posts: 1212 | Joined May 2001 | Posted on: 4:19 pm on Mar. 23, 2004 | IP
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Deleted Member
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Also, there is Amorphous metal. I don't know if this was mentioned before because I didn't read the whole page, but amorphous metal, or glassy metal is a newly-developed alloy. An example is Liquid Metal 2. This metal makes a great armor because: 1. It can be molded into any shape like plastic 2. it is very elastic. It's so elastic, in fact, that if you make a sphere of this stuff the size of a golf ball and drop it on a steel plate, it will bounce for almost two minutes! 3. It is two to three times stronger than conventional alloys. This stuff would be difficult to penetrate even with bombs! However, there is one problem: It costs over $15 per pound, (60 times more than steel), so anyone who needs large amounts of this stuff had better have pretty deep pockets. However, the price is expected to come down in the next few years.
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Total Posts: N/A | Joined N/A | Posted on: 9:07 pm on April 11, 2004 | IP
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Caesar02
N00b Zerkleinerungsmaschine
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Yeah, we've been over the amorphous metal topic in another thread. Another downside to consider is that because of it's extreme hardness, it is extremely brittle.
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Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes. That way, when you do criticize them, you're a mile away, and you have their shoes.
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Total Posts: 1191 | Joined June 2002 | Posted on: 2:05 pm on April 12, 2004 | IP
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Deleted Member
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OoH... Okay. I didn't acually read the whole panel. However, I read recently that Liquidmetal re-did their product, and they have been experimenting with different alloy combinations to try to fix the catastrophic shear failiure problem. With Liquidmetal2, they they have the problem partially solved, and they think they'll have it solved within the next few years. I'm just saying that when the time comes to build a heavily-armoured monstrosity, amourphous metal may be an option, and the catastrophic shear failiure may not be an issue. It was just an idea.
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Total Posts: N/A | Joined N/A | Posted on: 10:51 pm on April 12, 2004 | IP
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Merlyn
Advanced Member
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IIRC, Chobham armour acts as a reactive armor without the explosive charges. A search online for chobham armor reveals that the reason for this is the layer of ceramic is pulverized at the point of impact, then when the plasma jet burns through the outer armor the ceramic dust expands out the hole and disrupts the jet.
There are also some very interesting things going on with cermet armors which leads me to think perhaps multiple layers of cermet and pure ceramic could function as a very effective armor system and withstand multiple hits from various weapons.
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Merlyn
Magickal Engineer and Technical Metaphysicist
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Total Posts: 572 | Joined April 2004 | Posted on: 5:43 pm on April 15, 2004 | IP
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ChrisDickerson
Mecha Technician
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Have you looked at how much Chobham armor weighs? It's not feasible for our mech designs... Yet.
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Chris Dickerson, Resource Requisitions, M.P.S. Team
No one has the time to do a job right the first time, but they always have time to do it again.
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Total Posts: 1507 | Joined May 2003 | Posted on: 6:33 pm on April 15, 2004 | IP
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noahrei
Advanced Member
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Apparently, twelve layers of woven bamboo is as strong as steel. Just an Idea.
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In better times, justice had three flavors: Foil, Epee and Sabre.
Mad Rabbit Design
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Total Posts: 500 | Joined Aug. 2002 | Posted on: 9:07 pm on April 15, 2004 | IP
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Urza123
Newbie
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Hey, didn't have time to read through all of the thread but I had an idea. Take that reactive armor, but use compressed CO2 inside to plates. This would creat an outward release of gas (it would have to be VERY high pressure to have an effect). This gas is C02, witch can be VERY cold and also drown any explosion using an outside oxidiser. Also just a thought. Now another thought, you've hear of directional sound right? If not it uses extremely loud pulses of sound, so loud they give an instant pain in the head. Have directional sound emiters on all sides of the mech, instead of trying to stop a bullet flying toward, stop the person firing. Of course this would only work at a short range, like say 300 yards BEST. Good luck
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I want to die like my grandfather, in my sleep, not screaming like the poeple in his car.
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Total Posts: 18 | Joined April 2004 | Posted on: 10:46 pm on April 27, 2004 | IP
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ChrisDickerson
Mecha Technician
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The gas pressure thing only has one problem that I can think of. And that is the fact that in order to compress enough gas into that small an area, it would actually become liquid. Liquid is generally not able to flash vaporize fast enough to allow that sort of use. The sond emmiters are a possibility for non-lethal duty like crowd control. It has been considered and tabled at this point. We will look more into it as we get functional prototypes.
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Chris Dickerson, Resource Requisitions, M.P.S. Team
No one has the time to do a job right the first time, but they always have time to do it again.
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Total Posts: 1507 | Joined May 2003 | Posted on: 8:03 am on April 28, 2004 | IP
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Caesar02
N00b Zerkleinerungsmaschine
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The problem with using a directional sound device that merely emits a sound that is uncomfortable to listen to is that it can be defeated by simple ear protection, like earplugs. For this reason, most sound devices impliment a combination of audible sounds along with very low and very high frequencies which can cause physiological effects. If applied properly (or improperly, depending on which side of the speaker you're on), the effects can be lethal. I have heard many a story of unfortunate researchers being harmed or killed by their sound weapons.
One thing that could make the riot-control sound device much more practical would be the implimentation of the fabled brown note- the note which triggers a physiological response where control of the sphincter is lost and the subject shits him or her self. I don't know about you, but I'd probably stop tipping cars and starting fires if I had a pantload of crap to haul around with me.
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Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes. That way, when you do criticize them, you're a mile away, and you have their shoes.
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Total Posts: 1191 | Joined June 2002 | Posted on: 8:01 pm on April 28, 2004 | IP
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tomexe
Hardcore
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Quote: from ChrisDickerson on 5:03 am on April 28, 2004
The gas pressure thing only has one problem that I can think of. And that is the fact that in order to compress enough gas into that small an area, it would actually become liquid. Liquid is generally not able to flash vaporize fast enough to allow that sort of use. The sond emmiters are a possibility for non-lethal duty like crowd control. It has been considered and tabled at this point. We will look more into it as we get functional prototypes.
But using a large charge of electricity on the other hand seems to work. That is the basis of electric armor research. Becuase the jet produced by the Monroe effect has a good bit of length to it can make a bridge between two electrified plates. If the power is high enough the jet will pop like filliment in a fuze when it blows, and the jet will instead electroplate itself to the inside of the spaced armor chamber it was going through instead of penetrating.
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Total Posts: 1212 | Joined May 2001 | Posted on: 8:06 pm on April 28, 2004 | IP
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ChrisDickerson
Mecha Technician
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Interesting...
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Chris Dickerson, Resource Requisitions, M.P.S. Team
No one has the time to do a job right the first time, but they always have time to do it again.
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Total Posts: 1507 | Joined May 2003 | Posted on: 9:18 pm on April 28, 2004 | IP
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Urza123
Newbie
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Yes, the brown note....Sounds like a solid plan. The only problem is really poeple. I've been to concerts where poeple just shit and throw it around. If the Hype factor was high enough, it might just encourage poeple.
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I want to die like my grandfather, in my sleep, not screaming like the poeple in his car.
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Total Posts: 18 | Joined April 2004 | Posted on: 7:25 pm on April 29, 2004 | IP
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Campisi
Member
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...A disturbing thought...
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"Is it any wonder I can't sleep?
All I have is all you gave to me."
-Smashing Pumpkins
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Total Posts: 113 | Joined May 2004 | Posted on: 2:17 pm on May 5, 2004 | IP
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Reactive Armor
